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Post by Legolas on Mar 25, 2004 19:47:30 GMT -5
true. any other thoughts?
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Olorin
Servant
Race - Istari
Posts: 30
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Post by Olorin on Apr 5, 2004 1:57:31 GMT -5
Do you mean you think that Frodo was fated/destined to receive the Ring? I'm not sure that I totally understand, do you think you could extrapilate a bit more - thanks Well maybe he's saying fate, or God, or, Iluvatar had intended Frodo to end up with the ring so Bilbo was a tool in the hand of fate/God/Iluvatar.
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Post by Breelander on Jun 20, 2004 23:36:18 GMT -5
Yeah, but why exactly did Gandalf choose a hobbit at all? He knew he needed a burgler, and hobbits are light-footed and quiet, but there were professional burglers around who Gandalf could have chosen.
Also, it seems like Gandalf didn't come specifically to see Bilbo when he met him in the road at the beginning. The book says that it was by "some curious chance" that Bilbo was sitting on his step when Gandalf came by. And Gandalf told Bilbo that he couldn't stay because he was looking for someone to take part in an adventure. It was only after Bilbo described Gandalf's fireworks enthusiastically that Gandalf really seemed to choose him.
But later on in the book, Gandalf seems to know that Bilbo would be important in the adventure. So I don't know why Gandalf chose Bilbo exactly.
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Fili
Servant
Race - Erebor Dwarf
Posts: 16
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Post by Fili on Jul 22, 2004 11:24:43 GMT -5
;D
Hey ho
In the Unfinished Tales , there are two versions of why Bilbo was chosen.
It felt "right" for Gandalf to do so.
As for Bilbo finding the ring...well thats just a coincidence...as they say in Middlearth
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Post by Eru on Jul 22, 2004 16:05:11 GMT -5
In LotR, Gandalf says that Bilbo was meant to the find the Ring. So I'm not sure there was much coincidence. I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit more on Gandalf felt it was 'right'. What do you think brought him to that conclusion? Just curious.
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Post by Elrond Séregon on Aug 5, 2004 0:59:46 GMT -5
Hello everyone.
Concerning why Tolkien choose a Hobbit for the ring-bearer was ultimately to prove his point that even the smallest person can change the course of the future. Hobbits, by nature, are simple people... they "do not understand machines more complicated than a water mill." The ring, on the other hand is advanced technology. As Galadriel says in CH. 7, BOOK II, when Frodo asks her why he cannot percieve others thoughts with the ring, she responds that it requires immense power and strength of will to do so. In this sense, it is natural that a Hobbit should resist the power and temptation of the ring so easily. No one else can carry the ring because it tempts them too much (e.g. Boromir). In essence, it is the Hobbit's simple nature that becomes his greatest strength against the will of the ring.
As for the discrepancy between Bilbo's "coincidence" and "meant to find the ring" i think it is this: It is coincidence that Bilbo's journey to the Lonely Mountain should be the one in which he finds the ring. It is coincidence that the ring should choose to abondon Gollum at the precise time when Biblo discovers Gollum's cave. Indeed, this is never part of Gandalf's plan in the beginning...just coincidence. However, the fact that Bilbo alone should wander into Gollum's cave... that fate of the journey ultimately put him in the path of Gollum's cave suggests that he was "meant" to find the ring. It is him alone, and none of the dwarves, who are put in this path.
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Post by Breelander on Aug 5, 2004 9:39:02 GMT -5
That explains why Tolkien chose Bilbo, but it doesn't explain why Gandalf did. Gandalf wasn't out to prove that the smallest person could change the course of the future. Also, Gandalf chose Bilbo after talking to him only once in his life - he must have felt something, like someone said, "it felt right" to choose Bilbo.
But it's pretty clear that the Ring was NOT trying to find Bilbo - it was no intention of the Ring's. An orc would have been more to its liking because orcs are more corruptible. But there was supposed to be a greater power behind it all, trying to work things out for good itself, which included having Gandalf choose Bilbo to come, who would find the ring, and then pass it on to Frodo...(Bilbo being the only person who could give up the ring after decades of use)
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Post by Eru on Aug 5, 2004 9:39:31 GMT -5
Your first paragraph may better suit a talk in LotR, because if you recall The Hobbit was written before LotR was conceived. Tolkien even went back and changed things in The Hobbit so that it better followed what was happening in LotR.
Besides all that the original question was 'why do you think GANDALF choose Bilbo' to go on this adventure.
I did like reading your thoughts and like them very much.
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Post by Elrond Séregon on Aug 5, 2004 11:23:59 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the replies. I suppose I was a bit off-track on the last post.
I have several thoughts on why Gandalf choose Bilbo:
1. Gandalf, so it is said, is the only wizard to meddle in the affairs of the half-lings, or hobbits. From the very first pages in the Hobbit, the reader understands the Gandalf is very much familiar with Hobbits, and so possibly Gandalf (having already arranged the adventure with the dwarves) thought that the addition of a Hobbit might be a way to prove to himself (or to his other wizard peers) just how much Hobbits are worth in the course of the world.
2. Gandalf knew he needed a Burgular and thought that a Hobbit's nature of being able to "disappear quietly and quickly when large, stupid folk like you and me come blundering along," would prove most valuable to the journey.
3. Now, as to why it was Bilbo. First off, Gandalf already knew his family lineage with the Tooks. Tolkien himself states that the Bagginses were the most respectable "because they never had any adventures or did anything unexpected." He also states, in reference to the Tooks, "but certainly there was still something not entirely Hobbit-like about them [the Tooks]." Gandalf, it is likely, would have had knowledge of this. So, if there is some credit as to what was posed above in #1, Bilbo would have been the perfect solution because he was more hobbit-like and ordinary than the Tooks, yet he still had that Took side in him that "only waited for chance to come out." Bilbo's ordinary hobbit nature would make him most cautious and keenly aware on adventures. Most ordinary hobbits would not go on adventures... but Bilbo had that Took side in him.
4. Getting back to the 'chance.' As mentioned before, Tolkien states that Biblo's Took side "waited for chance to coome out." Also, "By some curious chance one morning long ago in the quiet of the world....Gandalf came by." The reader, however, is left in the dark about whether Gandalf was merely strolling around the Shire, past Bilbo's hole, or whether he intentionally went looking for Bilbo. Personally, I think it was coincidence that Bilbo met Gandalf on the morning which Gandalf was arranging an adventure, but once Gandalf saw Bilbo, the opportunity presented itself to him, and Gandalf thought 'he would be perfect.'
Any thoughts?
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